My DAW considerations thread.

Keyboards, Synths, Samplers and Groove Boxes.

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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby MetroSonus » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:16 pm

Well I said that CR can go sit on it in some pee pee water and that I was going to get Spark LE so nanhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :b
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby gregwar » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:03 am

i tried maschine and found it to be pretty confusing. this is coming from kore which wasn't very confusing to me. these things are never that bad tho i've found. after learning how to use my korg O1w/fds sequencer, make patches, combies, save songs to actual discs, etc from the lcd i find most soft synths pretty straight forwards. like all things you get what you put in

my friend has spark and i found it less confusing because it has a different layout. the edm and dubstep expansion kits were 'ok' in my book but i'd almost rather just make my own kits from various bits like some spark sounds, some .wav samples, some synth drums, etc

logic's ultrabeat may be the biggest cluster f*ck off all drum plug-ins. the gui has pages and pages of tiny parameters where you can synthesize, use samples or some of their stock sounds. i've been using it for years and still haven't totally figured all the features out but i just look stuff up when i need something specific.

the best drum plug-in ever is battery. i have 3 and i tried 4 and i'm prolly going to use that exclusively for everything that isn't ultrabeat. its actually good for not just drums but anything rhythmic at all. its my ableton 'clip launcher', my way to add variations really easily, etc. for example make a bunch of basslines at a given tempo, save as .wav, put them in battery and its really easy to trigger them, add effects, etc. this is how a lot of dubstep is made

so far the coolest drums i've played around with are the ones in the super natural fantom g expansion pack. it does this 3d drum thing where you can change the size of the skins, change the depth of the drums, mic positions, etc. for non 'acoustic' sounds like 808s and stuff you get a lot of parameters and i can really beef them up with uad plug-ins if necessary.

i'm a big fan of the 'uncanny valley' and really like making things that are synthesized sound 'real' but not quite and do little tweaks and drop hints that everything is totally electronic. so my taste in drum sounds and what i'm trying to achieve on any given day may be pretty different than u guys lol
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:49 pm

MetroSonus wrote:That's interesting about guitar rig. Plenty of people made it seem like the go to thing for really toughening up synths and things.

NI has a new set of compressors and other mastering stuff. I thought the demos sounded pretty good.

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/pr ... mpressors/

Do you think these are built on the same technology?


Nah I think they new plugs are completely new. Not sure they can compete with stuff from other manufacturers though.

Guitar Rig effects are great for wacky stuff. Not so great for regular effects stuff.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:49 pm

ElectricPuppy wrote:Hmm. And here I was kinda toying with the idea of getting Maschine at some point, but "unintuitive" pushes that over back over the "meh" line for me.

And I agree; Guitar Rig sux. I tried to use it as a way to mangle some synth sounds, and I came away going... "meh".

finally, in conclusion: Meh.


I'm talking about Song mode thought.

If you just want to lay down grooves, it might be good.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:56 pm

selfinflikted wrote:
ElectricPuppy wrote:Hmm. And here I was kinda toying with the idea of getting Maschine at some point, but "unintuitive" pushes that over back over the "meh" line for me.


I know! I was considering this too, especially since CR once gave Maschine an apparent two thumbs up.

The truth will set your gas free.


I guess I should explain better.

Maschine as a standalone groove box is a two thumbs up. The sounds are great and it's totally worth it as a sampler, I think. The effects are also better than I gave it credit for. I guess i was frustrated. But the truth is that the effects are passable, and only if applied in really really REALLY small doses.

What is non-intuitive is using it as a VST inside a DAW. Also, that brought up bugs I had no idea that it had, like the random re-assigning of pattern sizes. If that had happened once or twice, I would have thought it was my fault and I had done something wrong. But it happened several times, and at one point even changing the pattern would not change it - I would look and it went right back to the wrong value again. I spent TWO HOURS on this (CAPSLOCK!!!!!). Eventually the only thing that helped fix it is, I saved the project with a different name, closed it and opened it up and then it changed the pattern size. (No, closing and opening without changing project name did not fix it... in fact rebooting did not fix it).

But I think the results kind of speak for themselves - I did accomplish what I set out to do, and I do appreciate the flexibility that Maschine has, if I work within its limitations (I still think 30 patterns per song is not enough... but I digress...)

Anyway, here's the somewhat completed song. The mastering on it sucks and the mixing isn't great either. It's a first time effort. The positive side is, hey I'm actually posting some music :D

WARNING: Very Christian lyrics. Don't listen if it's something you hate.



In case you're wondering why the video, I sent it for a local station song contest, mostly to get my name out there.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby MetroSonus » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:23 pm

I won't watch that until you do some photo shop on your face. :lol:

I don't wanna believe there's not santa.. I mean, prince regent.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby selfinflikted » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:50 pm

The link isn't showing up, so it must be something not viewable for me at work, CR. CURSES! I will take a look/listen at home this evening though! Can't wait! Also, I don't hate Christian lyrics. If that's your bag man, then that's cool with me! I don't write those kinds of songs, and I don't actively seek out Christian music to listen to (atheist here), but you are an excellent musician so no matter the subject matter, I can appreciate the musicianship and production.

On Maschine:

I would be using it in my DAW as a VST. This is usually how I do drums, so you tell me if you think it would be something I would want, or a headache that I wouldn't:

I usually do a MIDI track with me actually playing my electronic drum set. Then, I'll go back and edit the midi notes manually once I've screwed this part or that up beyond recognition. Then, I would just want my midi track to trigger the samples. Seems legit?
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:45 pm

selfinflikted wrote:The link isn't showing up, so it must be something not viewable for me at work, CR. CURSES! I will take a look/listen at home this evening though! Can't wait! Also, I don't hate Christian lyrics. If that's your bag man, then that's cool with me! I don't write those kinds of songs, and I don't actively seek out Christian music to listen to (atheist here), but you are an excellent musician so no matter the subject matter, I can appreciate the musicianship and production.


You're just too kind :) I can say likewise regarding your musical capabilities. Plus you keep getting better every song I hear.

You might be disappointed in this song though, the recording quality improved but the lack of time and the rustiness in general means the playing is really sloppy - except maybe the bass, I think that turned out kind of good. Especially since it's fretless, and the first time I recorded with a fretless. But anyway - it's what I could come up with considering I have a newborn at home and haven't slept properly in over a month...

On Maschine:

I would be using it in my DAW as a VST. This is usually how I do drums, so you tell me if you think it would be something I would want, or a headache that I wouldn't:

I usually do a MIDI track with me actually playing my electronic drum set. Then, I'll go back and edit the midi notes manually once I've screwed this part or that up beyond recognition. Then, I would just want my midi track to trigger the samples. Seems legit?


I don't think Maschine would do what you want. It is pattern-based. For me, since that's how I worked with drum machines, it fits. I write each part of the song and then just tie them all together.

You'd probably be better off getting something like Slater Drums and continue playing from your electronic kit, or play from a controller with pads.
Last edited by christianrock on Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:46 pm

MetroSonus wrote:I won't watch that until you do some photo shop on your face. :lol:

I don't wanna believe there's not santa.. I mean, prince regent.


I definitely am considering putting the Prince Regent face on that pic.

j/k I don't know if the my friends and family who I'm asking to vote for me in the contest, would understand the joke :lol:
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby Plink Floyd » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:16 am

christianrock wrote:
MetroSonus wrote:j/k I don't know if the my friends and family who I'm asking to vote for me in the contest, would understand the joke :lol:
But, you're saying they'll understand the j/k face that's on there nao?

lol just kddng! Tis a fine foresty photo. Nice song too, I'll vote for ya. Where's it?
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby selfinflikted » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:08 pm

christianrock wrote:I don't think Maschine would do what you want. It is pattern-based. For me, since that's how I worked with drum machines, it fits. I write each part of the song and then just tie them all together.

You'd probably be better off getting something like Slater Drums and continue playing from your electronic kit, or play from a controller with pads.


Yea. I just basically need some better samples than my DR 880 has. It has gotten me by so far, but I'm getting to the point where my production quality needs to be stepped up a notch or two.

On your song: Dude. I wish I had your voice. I *can* sing in tune, but I don't have a very nice voice for recording. I do occasionally hit the right notes, but the timber of my voice is plain awful, so I'm extremely jealous of your vox. The rest is nice, only the beat seems off in places. As always, nice work. Incidentally, do you sing on other peoples' songs? :poke:

ETA: Is the voting open to the public?
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:02 pm

Plink Floyd wrote:
christianrock wrote:
MetroSonus wrote:j/k I don't know if the my friends and family who I'm asking to vote for me in the contest, would understand the joke :lol:
But, you're saying they'll understand the j/k face that's on there nao?

lol just kddng! Tis a fine foresty photo. Nice song too, I'll vote for ya. Where's it?


The link to vote is http://victory915.com/contest?v=60

You have to like their Christian Radio facebook page to vote though, which is why I hadn't asked you guys to do it. But if you wanna, I'm not stopping ya :) In fact you can vote every day :)
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:06 pm

selfinflikted wrote:Yea. I just basically need some better samples than my DR 880 has. It has gotten me by so far, but I'm getting to the point where my production quality needs to be stepped up a notch or two.


Yeah those Roland drum sounds have gotten a bit long in the tooth and have been heard over and over and over and over...
The thing with Maschine is, it has a ton of sounds but I always want the sounds it doesn't have. I did settle for a sound that I was ok with at the end.
I like the Slater drum sounds much better than the Native Instruments acoustic drum sounds. Or maybe the grass is just greener on the other side.
I do have a very basic Slater drum set that I bought last year, but I'd have to basically play the entire song on my pads and fix it later like you do. I don't know if I can do that just yet, I hate making mistakes 3 minutes into a song and having to redo the whole thing over and over...

Oh and those tube microphones do flatter my voice quite a bit. I don't sound like that through an SM58 :)

On your song: Dude. I wish I had your voice. I *can* sing in tune, but I don't have a very nice voice for recording. I do occasionally hit the right notes, but the timber of my voice is plain awful, so I'm extremely jealous of your vox. The rest is nice, only the beat seems off in places. As always, nice work. Incidentally, do you sing on other peoples' songs? :poke:


I could be persuaded :) I do have this thing about not singing any lyrics that go against what I believe, though.

It's funny because I don't really like my own voice. I had to work for years and years to get it where I think it's palatable. But my first few bands, up to my mid-20s, always received comments like "you guys are good, if you could only find a better singer I'm sure you would do well..."

Whenever I thought of giving up I always thought of Geddy Lee of Rush and Dave Mustaine of Megadeth, and thought, if they could make it, maybe I can... :lol:
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby selfinflikted » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:20 pm

christianrock wrote:
Yeah those Roland drum sounds have gotten a bit long in the tooth and have been heard over and over and over and over...
The thing with Maschine is, it has a ton of sounds but I always want the sounds it doesn't have. I did settle for a sound that I was ok with at the end.
I like the Slater drum sounds much better than the Native Instruments acoustic drum sounds. Or maybe the grass is just greener on the other side.
I do have a very basic Slater drum set that I bought last year, but I'd have to basically play the entire song on my pads and fix it later like you do. I don't know if I can do that just yet, I hate making mistakes 3 minutes into a song and having to redo the whole thing over and over...


The beauty of drumming on a set that sends MIDI data makes this a non-issue for me. Even if I screw parts up, well really WHEN I screw parts up (I'm not a great drummer), I'll just go back and manually fix the notes in the MIDI editor. But you're right - the Roland samples I'm using are just too.. I dunno, maybe "stale" for me. They work, obviously, but I want bigger, better, and MOAR.

I could be persuaded :) I do have this thing about not singing any lyrics that go against what I believe, though.


Well, I usually don't write lyrics about how much I love Satan and want to kill everyone :jam: . No, mostly my lyrics are so open-ended that basically there can be as many valid interpretations for a single song as there are individuals listening to it. For instance, this new one I'm writing, while technically a stoner song about an acid trip, is so vague, that only I would know that if I hadn't just told you. Wait a minute...
I probably shouldn't have said that. :eek:

I move to strike that from the record, your Honor.

It's funny because I don't really like my own voice. I had to work for years and years to get it where I think it's palatable. But my first few bands, up to my mid-20s, always received comments like "you guys are good, if you could only find a better singer I'm sure you would do well..."

Whenever I thought of giving up I always thought of Geddy Lee of Rush and Dave Mustaine of Megadeth, and thought, if they could make it, maybe I can... :lol:


Perhaps it's just me, then. My voice sounds so radically different in my own head than it does on "tape" that it just seems like it's a different person than me. So maybe that's my problem, I dunno. I've never really let anyone hear me sing before, so my own criticisms are all I have to go on.

Incidentally, what did you do to "work" on your voice for so long that you were finally satisfied with it?

ETA: For years and years, I always thought Geddy Lee was a woman singer. It was ONLY just about 10 years ago that I found out. And no, I never really liked Rush too much. They have a few good songs, imo, I was just never a big enough fan to know that the lead singer/bass player was a d00d.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:15 pm

selfinflikted wrote:I move to strike that from the record, your Honor.


Bwahaha!

Incidentally, what did you do to "work" on your voice for so long that you were finally satisfied with it?


Well, as you said, the voice sounds so much different in our head than it does when recorded (or when other people hear it).
So some of it was voice lessons, I had 3 different teachers. The main lesson was to overemphasize diction so the words would be clearer. That by itself makes you sound a bit more pro. There's techniques on how to do that and how to exercise your face muscles so this will become more natural.
But most was recording my own songs and just trying different things with my voice. Sometimes what you think sounds great in your head doesn't sound good at all when recorded. I used to think I could hit some notes and sing a certain way and I would sound like my favorite singers. When I heard it recorded, it sounded like a dying bird or a squealing pig. Then eventually I'd convince myself, I can't really do that with my voice, it just doesn't sound good :)
Other things, like my softer singing voice, came with time. My favorite singers never had soft singing voices, they all let it rip, pretty much. And I wanted to rawk. But recordings, and people's opinions, made it obvious to me that when I sing softer my voice sounds better. Again, against my own instincts I worked on making sure I'd sing more soft parts. One particular voice teacher was very helpful in that regard. She was from the Tampa area (no idea if the old lady is still alive). And she had been a famous Broadway singer in her day. Singing with your talking voice is what Broadway singers do. So she taught me to do that. Again, it went against my instinct. I thought I had to be operatic and dramatic to sound good. But it just didn't fit my voice.
So you can see how this took a few years :)
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby selfinflikted » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:18 pm

Hm. Honestly, I don't know if I'm even good enough for voice lessons. But I'm also the type that would clean my house before my maid got there (if I had a maid).

Well, your post gives me hope. I guess I'll just have to work on it. I *may* sing the vox on this tune sooner or later and have you guys critique me to death on it. But you'll all just probably say, "Get a vocalist." heh!

Thanks for the suggestions though. Maybe I will look into voice lessons after all. It could be fruitful.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:36 pm

It's not gonna hurt :)

Well, maybe your wallet. A little bit. But you'd just spend it anyway.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:14 pm

So. I haz a pissed.

Started working on some songs yesterday after - geez, I don't know how long it's been. Got a great vocal sound going thanks to my Carvin and Sennheiser mics and also the ART tube preamp. Got a great guitar sound for my new demos thanks to the great Joyo American Sound pedal going directly - can't say enough about how great this little pedal is for recording.

Created a new project, and in the middle of starting to record, my external HD fails (that Seagate Momentum I got several pages back). I might be able to get it back to working condition, as it might be the casing. If I unhook it and hook it back a few times I might get it to work for a minute or two. If I hold it a certain way, it seems like I can get it to stay working enough time that I should be able to copy the files I have in it to my backup.

So... I try to access my backup external HD (a Toshiba). But it's dead. I have a thing about my backups always dying way before my computer HDs do... so I'm asking myself why I have backups anyway!

One HD gone, one I might be able to recover somehow as it's an internal HD with that external casing and USB port. If I take it apart and carefully put it back I might be able to get it working again as the actual HD might be ok.

Still, it looks like I need one, potentially two new HDs... I only have about 20Gb left in my Mac's 240 SSD internal drive (Komplete takes up most of the space).

So, I'm thinking about either getting another hybrid drive like this one, or I'm thinking, why not just get a couple of 64Gb SD cards and write my music projects on them, then just get a better quality backup than the Toshiba that just died? All those multitrack hardward units write to SD cards so I think it should be enough for my purposes, no? I don't think I'll have more than 20-30 tracks per song, and a lot of time much less than that.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:11 pm

Maybe Gregwar can help me with this one? I'm looking at my MacBook Pro's Specs and I can't find out if my SDXC port is USB or PCIe... apparently if it's PCIe I should be able to use it as an external SSD drive with no problems and performance should be great. Helpful Google has been of no help so far.

I guess I'll have to poke around the computer when I get home tonight...
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby soundwave106 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:16 am

christianrock wrote:So, I'm thinking about either getting another hybrid drive like this one, or I'm thinking, why not just get a couple of 64Gb SD cards and write my music projects on them, then just get a better quality backup than the Toshiba that just died? All those multitrack hardward units write to SD cards so I think it should be enough for my purposes, no? I don't think I'll have more than 20-30 tracks per song, and a lot of time much less than that.


I think it's worth a try? The "default" at Amazon appears to be class 10 UHS-1, $20 for 64GB. I imagine it will be good for 20-30 tracks. It'll be cheap to test at least.

I have a UHS-II capable SD card just to give buffer for recording HD video in one of my cameras. I'm 100% positive *these* will work, they are zippy like a hard drive. But I'm not sure you need to go that expensive. I see other reports in forums that slower SD cards work fine for music.
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