The Politiscape

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Re: The Politiscape

Postby ClavAnother » Wed May 04, 2016 12:51 am

Are the primaries over yet?

I'm waiting til then to put out my Ron Paul yard sign.
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby Plink Floyd » Wed May 04, 2016 3:49 am

^that up there rite?^

--

and Indiana Trump sez

"OH HAI CRUZ WE B FRENZ NAO K? UR DAD NOT KLLD JFK RITE?"
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby BonsoWonderDog » Wed May 04, 2016 3:50 am

so Cruz has pulled out?
DO NOT WRITE IN THIS SPACE
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby Plink Floyd » Wed May 04, 2016 3:54 am

Oh hai Bonzo!! :wave:

Yes, Cruze has quitted because Indiana, man.

And also in Indiana Bernie Sanders kicked Hillary's cankles lol.

I'm not sure how those two facts can co-exist in one state. Unless it's just a really bad case of 'throw the bums out'.
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby soundwave106 » Wed May 04, 2016 12:47 pm

Plink Floyd wrote:I'm not sure how those two facts can co-exist in one state. Unless it's just a really bad case of 'throw the bums out'.


ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT!!!!!! :mad:

Background: The economy for many has kind of stagnated since the 1980s, but has *really* stagnated or even declined since 2000.

The root cause is generally attributed to one of the following phenomenon:
[*]Globalization
[*]Technology advances

Despite this, general anger at this situation tends to be directed at:
[*]Foreigners / immigrants, plus globalization sucks (Donald Trump supporters)
[*]Our relatively stingy government social support system, and/or globalization sucks (Bernie Sanders supporters)

I'll be honest, if politics were about the *issues*, I think that *many people* would be inclined to say "why not both?" Donald Trump is much less "lol end Medicare and Social Security" than many Republicans, and hates free trade. Bernie Sanders certainly isn't pro-free trade like Clinton Democrats in the past were. There's more crossover synergy than you think.

Politics is largely about personality though, and personality wise they are way different (Donald Trump=authoritarian; Bernie Sanders=European left). I can't see too many people crossing over overall. But I can see at least one "root cause" (the blah stagnation) throwing people towards "anti-elite" candidates of various degrees, particularly in manufacturing-heavy states like the Rust Belt. Indiana and Michigan had similar results for instance.

As a note from the "technology industry" side, a lot of high flying Silicon Valley types have been bandying around such concepts as a universal basic income of late. Sure that's kind of the "liberal left way" of San Francisco, but they wouldn't be talking this up if they weren't a little bit scared of the stagnation. They're kind of wanting to nudge things towards a "Star Trek" universe. And there may be a point here. I'm personally not anti-tech or anti-globalization, but without some form of change to the economic system, my cynicism thinks that we're more heading towards a "Blade Runner" dystopia out of it. Unfortunately, I trust exactly 0 of our current presidential candidates to have a rational debate on this subject. :lol:
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby MetroSonus » Wed May 04, 2016 1:08 pm

yea ST:TNG is communism whereas classic trek was probably more socialist.

Yea I have nothing to say at all about anything other than...

Image


For me, at the least, I think we need to keep manufacturing in the US. it's a pretty simply concept. You take basic, cheap, raw materials and turn them into something more useful that's worth intrinsically more than it's constituents. It's what brings in new money and allows people to make a decent living off of skilled and semi skilled labor. The other half of that is having the business headquartered in this country / state. We close all the loop holes and off shore tax bull shit and I think that'd be a good foundation for progress.

Trade needs to be ironed out too. Living in florida and buying produce from south america is bull shit, just because someone says it's not fair that we don't buy their stuff. well innovate.. make something we want to buy.

But I dunno, i'm not running for office so :drink: :samsh:
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby Purity_Control » Wed May 04, 2016 4:09 pm

It's similar here too, except all of our shite seems to come from China.
"To be honest with you, I just assumed it was another symptom of Taren Capel being as mad as a bicycle."
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby gregwar » Wed May 04, 2016 7:58 pm

more manufacturing jobs where and for whom? here in canada it tends to be concentrated in the eastern provinces and has little to no benefit to the central and western parts. rising tides don't necessarily lift all boats

(granted in the US at least corporate headquarters and whatnot aren't all concentrated in one place like toronto)

anyways this isn't necessarily a good solution. if anything we look more like the 'gilded age' now with extreme inequality than during the early post-war period. the difference after WW2 was higher taxes on elites and the labour movement. i'm not pro union as the inefficiencies and uncompetitiveness were taken to extremes later.

still something should be done about the extreme wage disparities. its easier to view elites in civil society as evil like rousseau in his discourse on the origins of inequality. this view greatly influenced thomas paine and the problems associated with hereditary transfers of wealth and power.

we're told to be upwardly mobile we need an (expensive) education and the bachelors degree is new high school diploma lol. i think what we really need is more and better opportunities.

it could be through "crown" corporations (gov't owned companies), quasi-private/public ones, proper incentives, etc. this is historically how we developed here in canada especially in regions nobody cares about

:like:
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby soundwave106 » Wed May 04, 2016 9:09 pm

gregwar wrote:still something should be done about the extreme wage disparities. its easier to view elites in civil society as evil like rousseau in his discourse on the origins of inequality. this view greatly influenced thomas paine and the problems associated with hereditary transfers of wealth and power.


I think there is no way to escape the technological improvements in manufacturing personally. I do think some manufacturing will come back to the United States as China / India's wages rise and some of the "lax rules" (that allowed such things as corruption and pollution to thrive) get tightened down. Already has to a bit of a degree.

However, there will be more robots on the assembly line, not so much people. So that probably won't help much. Have you seen Mutable Instrument's video on their contract manufacturer? That's pretty much atypical (that particular factory is in France, the ones in China, India, US, everywhere are similar). It does not take a huge amount of people to operate a line (it's not zero but it's not hundreds of people either). There's going to be far more employees for this company, I bet, in the back doing logistics, inventory management, billing, accounting / finance, IT work, etc. (most of which will require some knowledge of business or technical concepts). More robots, not less, are the future. (Those hand soldered components are an expensive addition.)

Service jobs are the new general manufacturing job; the problem right now is that too many service jobs pay junk. Frankly, less than they should. I think this will have to change somehow; whether it's by 1900s style organized labor riots or whether its through other means, we shall see.

I do agree that bachelor degrees are over-emphasized; they make sense for technical fields or business fields, and I can see it for fields that need top connections, and also if you're shooting for the PhD brainy realm. Fluff liberal arts degrees (there *are* non-fluff liberal arts majors, but we know there's also mediocre ones) are better served with vocational degrees. America has relatively poor vocational training in my opinion. Germany for instance has a dual vocational system that seems to work very well for them.

I applaud recent "leaks" into the offshore system (the Panama papers) and think we do need more transparency here to counter all of the economic shell games going on.

That's my viewpoint, now back to the election entertainment. :snax:
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby Plink Floyd » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:53 pm

lol my gubbernor is teh Donald's running mate.

Indiana, man.
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby christianrock » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:12 pm

Plink Floyd wrote:lol my gubbernor is teh Donald's running mate.

Indiana, man.


Hoosiers, man.

Mr. Pence seems like a good man.
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby MetroSonus » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:14 pm

That's what corn gets ya :mad:
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby ElectricPuppy » Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:55 pm

I blame corn. :mad:
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby midinut » Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:43 am

Plink Floyd wrote:lol my gubbernor is teh Donald's running mate.

Indiana, man.


My gubbernor is a frickin' idiot. :grin:
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby Purity_Control » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:28 am

Chinese manufacturing isn't simply cheap, a lot of stuff is purposely sold at or below cost in a practice called dumping.

The only aim of this is to underine existing markets and manufacturing, because it's impossible to compete with.
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