The Politiscape

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The Politiscape

Postby gregwar » Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:52 pm

i'm a political science guy but clearly not everyone is interested in this stuff

here in canada we've had a federal election in octobre and a provincial one this week. plus with the US primaries, EU and British stuff, etc politics has been blowing up all my social media feeds

so maybe we can discuss these medium-taboo topics here without fully disrupting other threads and/or hurting people's feelings
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby gregwar » Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:02 pm

so there have been many theories and articles on the rise of the donald. this is my favourite piece on the subject. it reads better than the dense statistical stuff on the atlantic and 538 and has a less dour view on the situation

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/ ... ald-trump/

as some of you may know, the donald was involved in pro wrestling

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judd talks about a french philosopher called ronald barthes that compares wrestling 'spectacle' to boxing, with traditional rules and decorum. the outcome is not as relevant in wrestling as its more about a series of moments of excitement while throwing off the usual constraints that lead to a nomination.

anyways, it was an interesting read
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby soundwave106 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:37 am

gregwar wrote:so maybe we can discuss these medium-taboo topics here without fully disrupting other threads and/or hurting people's feelings


Politics tab of Harmony Central here we come! :lol: :freak: :pfft:

I personally think that "The Donald" is very akin to Silvio Berlusconi in Italy. Kind of the same formula: parts of a nation stuck in a state of "blah" for a large portion of people, with a news media that isn't the best at being sober and factual (and often is more reduced to emotional gotchas and fluff), gets seduced by a "strongman" persona who says controversial masculine things, promises nostalgic greatness, and if elected will do nothing except attempt to enrich their extensive media and real estate holdings.

I do not want to imagine, however, Donald Trump having bunga-bunga parties. Nope. Just nope.

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Re: The Politiscape

Postby Purity_Control » Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:55 am

I can't take Trump seriously, which maybe isn't right if he is actually some sort of player here rather than just a clown.

One images you're all aware of what trump means in UK English? :lol:
"To be honest with you, I just assumed it was another symptom of Taren Capel being as mad as a bicycle."
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby Plink Floyd » Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:54 am

Purity_Control wrote:One images you're all aware of what trump means in UK English? :lol:

I'm afraid one would be mistaken in one's assumptions. But one could be assured that any forthcoming elucidation would be greatly appreciated.

:grin:
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby soundwave106 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:49 pm

In parts of England, trumping is generating a mighty fine (and potentially pungent) bit of wind from the arse.

Fitting, actually. :grin:
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby Purity_Control » Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:34 pm

It sure is in Yorkshire! :grin:
"To be honest with you, I just assumed it was another symptom of Taren Capel being as mad as a bicycle."
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby christianrock » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:41 pm

So Trump is the same as Poot?

That's your political lesson for the day, I guess :)

I kind of turned off from this year's primaries. I was getting depressed, so for me the best was to just ignore things. I didn't even vote in the primary, didn't see any point in selecting among a bunch of people when I didn't want to see a single one of them as president.

I'd be apathetic, but I just don't care to.
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby Plink Floyd » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:38 am

I've never voted in a primary.

That's about to change.

:facepalm:
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby christianrock » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:39 pm

This might be the right place to post this :)

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Re: The Politiscape

Postby gregwar » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:00 am

here's the Obama doctrine from the Atlantic:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ne/471525/

I think after a-ghan and Iraq going into Syria could be a disaster if it was the third never ending war. it's horrible that the Syria situ has been going on for like 5+ years but a full US ground invasion is not the answer.
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby soundwave106 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:48 pm

gregwar wrote:it's horrible that the Syria situ has been going on for like 5+ years but a full US ground invasion is not the answer.


America's not ready for another war to be honest. Especially with the mixed to negative results of Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.

Anytime I talk to someone who is very gun-ho neo-con (usually coming with the pretext that Obama's foreign policy is a "complete failure" etc.) I have to remind them that Obama put up Syria military intervention up for a vote in Congress. As he should. And Congress voted nay. As the American public told them to. Obama was limited in scope and that was fine with me. I personally think he's done okay overall.

The Middle East situation overall definitely is :samsh: . No wonder all these Islamic people (Syrian refugees etc.) are moving to Europe, you would too if your place has been SNAFU for ages.

I'm a little more optimistic than that picture about Islam and Europe etc., but we'll see, it depends on which side merges. Other migrations in the past have changed the culture only a little. The mass migration of Indians to England in the 1960s and 1970s for instance seems to have overall not changed much except improve British cuisine. :grin:

Islamic people have not integrated as well so far and I can understand the worries about a "permanent underclass" forming (like African-Americans, gypsies in Europe, etc.).

One thing to keep in mind is that not everyone Islamic is uber-conservative, even if the religion overall is. Iran actually has a pretty lively underground party scene from what I understand that is more like that 1970s picture, but done on the hush-hush, sort of like a mix of America's prohibition days and the illegal rave scene. If you are rich, of course, you can party pretty much like everyone else in Dubai (used to be Cairo but times change). It is incredibly easy to find stuff like, say, home-grown Islamic pornography on the Internet if you know the right keywords. "It's a bit more complicated", in other words.

One story here: In the early days of the Internet, early 2000s, I created a primitive version of something like PHPoxy, which is like a scripted semi-proxy, in Perl. It was mostly for personal use, to get around sometimes stupid work filters, but I did make the URL public. Later I had to remove the "public" side because it was getting overloaded. Too many people, largely from the Middle East, were using that Perl proxy to access porn sites. :facepalm: I think Saudi Arabia blocked my URL at one point. :lol: Not everyone is fond of all aspects of the wahhabist way of life, apparently.
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby christianrock » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:06 pm

Going into Syria would have been a mistake, but knowing this, having set a "red line" was an even greater mistake. Why set red lines that you have no intention of doing anything about? This completely undermined the US position in any negotiation from that point forward.

Opening up to Cuba unilaterally, I believe, was also a great mistake.

The "red line" thing - is the same happening with Iran. Iran can keep doing whatever it wants because it knows the US under Obama won't bring back sanctions or do anything militar against Iran. Iran can invade Israel for all the current US government cares. As long as they don't miss getting Bibi killed, that is!

The current relationship with Israel is also a mistake. You just can't justify being buddies with Castro and the Iranian regime while being antagonistic with Israel.

Also, Mr. Obama has acknowledged that the way he handled Libya was a mistake. See http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36013703

So there's quickly 5 blunders in foreign policy... of course there's more but these can get the conversation started :)
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby soundwave106 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:31 am

christianrock wrote:So there's quickly 5 blunders in foreign policy... of course there's more but these can get the conversation started :)


See, I would disagree with four of those positions. :lol: (All except Libya.)

Personal opinion aside (much which will only be settled "in hindsight" I'm sure), I really don't believe America wants another war at this point. One of the positions that I think "the Donald" has taken, that I believe is attractive to many voters, is that he is -- for all his bluster -- relatively isolationist and "America first" etc.

Creating a "red line" in light of this national mood probably was a mistake, but the vote would have been no if the authorization bill was pushed, so...

(Note: I forgot that this bill never was pushed, if I remember in particular after Britain *did* vote against Syrian intervention, this bill was abandoned. But it probably wouldn't have passed, especially in the House. I think a lot of people worldwide are in a grumpy, isolationist, anti-government mood at the moment.)
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby Plink Floyd » Tue May 03, 2016 3:43 am

This primary/nominating system is srsly eff'd up.

:mad:

But then, so is this whole two party system.

I BLAME TV!
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby christianrock » Tue May 03, 2016 3:19 pm

Plink Floyd wrote:This primary/nominating system is srsly eff'd up.

:mad:

But then, so is this whole two party system.

I BLAME TV!


:itsanoutrage.jpg:
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby gregwar » Tue May 03, 2016 4:51 pm

ya obama has mentioned a few times he thinks the way they handled libya was a mistake. they rushed in and had no contingency plan for the after math and in the vacuum ISOL and other radical groups have risen.

my first year of uni i studied siad barre and the fallout in somalia. he led a military coup and ruled for 21 years and was exiled after becoming very unpopular. clanism was forbidden but eventually took over leading to somalia being a failed state.

in 1790 edmund burke was appalled at the french revolution and though 'tearing away the fabric of society' was a mistake. thats basically the situ in libya where civil society is destroyed and patches of land are run by hundreds of militias.

the UN has been trying to help establish a coalition gov't in Libya with a presidential council running the country out of morocco. the US has also done some drone strikes against ISOL leadership operating training camps in the region.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... 213686?o=0

i think like most problems facing the middle east there is no "easy" or "right" solution. systematically targeting and eliminating ISOL leadership and doubling down on a local Libya gov't solution is a start. either way i have no doubt the country would have devolved into chaos with or without US intervention.
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby MetroSonus » Tue May 03, 2016 5:13 pm

I think the issue is many people in america and including our government, don't understand the tribal nature of the middle east, africa and even China to an extent and how everything revolves around warlords.

Keeping that in mind, I think invading iraq was a huge and illegal mistake.
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Re: The Politiscape

Postby christianrock » Tue May 03, 2016 9:06 pm

I think this kind of sums up the US politics at the moment...

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wait, this is more like it

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Re: The Politiscape

Postby ElectricPuppy » Tue May 03, 2016 11:55 pm

I'M FIRING MAH LAZER
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