teh streaming business

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teh streaming business

Postby gregwar » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:26 pm

apple music and the streaming business model

the new iTunes 12.2.1 is pretty sweet as a consumer. as a musician its terrifying that the only paid download store has been gutted to become a streaming service.

the real problem with streaming is it needs to grow by a few orders of magnitude, as even bono had stated back in sept 2014.

it will be interesting to see if apple can reach their goal of 500 million paid members (out of 800+ million iOS devices). currently there are about 20 million paid spotify users. by my rough estimates if they can grow streaming by 50x then musicians will be able to make decent money

if a musician is able to get 20 000 streams per year this works out to $1000 (at $0.05/stream). i get roughly 10 000 streams per year (as a hobby, outside of my 84 hour per week job).

if we could grow that number to 1 million streams per year the average musician could make $50k year (average income in canada). that works out to about a billion subscribers to the streaming industry.

it seems impossible until you consider youtube has a billion users per month (with Facebook a close second in video streaming).

neither YouTube or Facebook have decent monetization options but this incentives artists to focus their attention on services that do.

the 'freemium' model touted by spotify (and Facebook, youtube, and others) will have tremendous pressure going forwards if apple music can succeed in converting millions of trial customers into paid customers.


related & background threads:
lets talk shop about releasing music
the evolution of music sales
social medias

any thoughts on streaming ?
Last edited by gregwar on Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby selfinflikted » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:34 pm

I think it sucks for musicians and bands, but rocks for the consumer - but that's technology - it's gonna happen regardless. I don't subscribe to any streaming services, and I still download my music in digital format from iTunes, the old-fashioned, legitimate way. I just like having my own copies. You don't really get to "keep" or "have" anything with the streaming services. I think you can save for offline play, but you can only do so temporarily. I'm just not down with it. This is how I know I'm getting old(er).

I think the old mindset of getting rich as an artist in the music industry is about to have to change. At least from selling your music. There are still other ways.
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby christianrock » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:38 pm

I don't see why the Apple model will be putting pressure on any free model.

Cable TV became a "must" because it offered all this stuff that free/air TV didn't have. But Apple music won't have anything you can't find on youtube or spotify, I guess. It's the Rhapsody model all over again.

It all would change if Apple started signing up major acts and feature them exclusively in their service. I just don't see it happening.

By the way - I buy CDs. :luddite:
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby selfinflikted » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:18 pm

Spotify has a sub, too.
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby ElectricPuppy » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:31 pm

Honestly, I don't think much about it. Even though I'm a "musician" (and I use the term loosely), I've long since lost the delusion that I'll ever publish anything that anyone would want.

So that mostly just makes me a run of the mill music consumer. I happen to be using Google Play quite a bit nowadays; why pay for a CD or even a single track when, for Pretty Cheap, I can just subscribe to a monthly thing and listen to almost anything I want?

What does annoy me, though, is when I can't find what I want on Play, even if I was willing to pay separately for it. Grrr.
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby Veracohr » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:36 pm

I've never been interested in the streaming thing. I don't think of myself as a luddite in that regard, I just don't want my music listening subject to internet connectivity issues, data caps, stuff like that. Maybe if I was always in search of new music, but I'm pretty happy only buying new music a couple times a year.
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby christianrock » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:11 pm

selfinflikted wrote:Spotify has a sub, too.


Last time I used it (months ago) it was free, but with commercials. Which is also the youtube model.
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby selfinflikted » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:44 pm

christianrock wrote:
selfinflikted wrote:Spotify has a sub, too.


Last time I used it (months ago) it was free, but with commercials. Which is also the youtube model.


I think you can still use it like that, but the majority of the subs are paid. It's nearly identical to the Apple thing, but Spotify did it before Apple. Apple is just following the trend here.
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby soundwave106 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:52 pm

The move to streaming is definitely not good for the artist, and will just continue the trend that has already been in place. There will be a few superstar musicians which produce disposable, likable-but-kind-of-crappy pop combined with great marketing prowress. Because they will have pop appeal, they will be able to make money in other ways. (Like the $200-$400 Taylor Swift typically charges for tickets. :lol: ) Then, there's a lot of various other genres that are more genuine, on some streams and whatnot... most of which will pay at best what you can get as a restaurant manager... and will likewise have more or less have hobbyist level quality (for better or for worse).

Basically, in music, the middle careers have been hollowed out... much like many other industries.

I'm not really into the streaming model personally. It's part of this whole move to the "cloud" that's trendy (including the name, I mean, is "offsite applications" not jazzy enough for ya?). Some of it is cool as an additional backup strategy (I do use Dropbox and Google Drive some and back up DAW tracks to Gobbler) but I've learned never to rely on the cloud.

(You see, I was a Google Reader user. Then Google pulled the plug. :samsh: I kling to my RSS, dammit!)

As I seek out obscure artists to hear sometimes, my guess is that many streaming services will not have what I like to listen to sometimes, anyways. I'm sure a lot of others will like it. It's better for consumers -- for all the issues with streams, OTA radio is way worse. :lol:
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby christianrock » Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:33 pm

selfinflikted wrote:
christianrock wrote:
selfinflikted wrote:Spotify has a sub, too.


Last time I used it (months ago) it was free, but with commercials. Which is also the youtube model.


I think you can still use it like that, but the majority of the subs are paid. It's nearly identical to the Apple thing, but Spotify did it before Apple. Apple is just following the trend here.


Didn't Rhapsody do it before any of them? That's why I mentioned Rhapsody earlier.
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby gregwar » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:21 pm

there's a ton of them like early napster, rdio, groove shark, slacker, deezer, songza, xbox music, amazon prime, pandora, etc etc etc

i use songza & spotify for music discovery. basically i cue up playlists in songza and if i find a song i like i'll search it in spotify. then find the album and skip thru it until i find a bunch of other sweet tracks

i started building artist playlists this way of my fav tracks but if i go over to apple music (i started the free trial) there's no way to move those playlists over :facepalm:

i still listen to podcasts like headphone commute and check sites like hot new hip hop but curation is still the biggest problem imho (echo nest fail lol)

the last fm 'scrobbling' algos from the late 00s was so random now everyone is showing off their humans

if apple could just nail the 'human playlist curation' and 'à-la-carte' track & album streaming then i wouldn't have to use songza and spotify

*edit:
its worth pointing out that apple music is a feature on a phone and spotify's loses are $180 million for 2014 (apple made around 39.5 billion profit in 2014)
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby selfinflikted » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:37 pm

Hello, my name is Selfinflikted, and I am a traitor.

*grabs coffee*

So, this weekend, I signed up for Apple Music, because three months free. Um. So. As a consumer, I can REALLY see why people are liking the streaming service thing. I actually think I am going to pay for a subscription when my trial period is over. This is crazy good. I will of course still buy music I like, but I understand the appeal of this kind of service now.

Unless you want to be a hypocrite like me, do NOT sign up for this kind of service. It's good, and you won't want to go back.
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby ElectricPuppy » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:26 pm

UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby selfinflikted » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:55 pm

ElectricPuppy wrote:UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!


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Re: teh streaming business

Postby gregwar » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:17 pm

lol yes

I have nearly no incentive to buy music anymore lol

srsly tho do we spend $10 every month on music ? if you're like me not likely

I think the $10/month on spotify, and now apple music will be the most I've spent in music in a long time
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby selfinflikted » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:33 pm

Dude. That is a small price to pay for being able to listen to virtually any song EVER that you want to listen to. Repeatedly. As much as you want.


Except Tool. They don't allow their stuff to be streamed. But I have most of their discography anyway.

I'm sure others too. But, I haven't noticed any others I can't find so far.
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby ElectricPuppy » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:47 pm

Likewise, no Beatles on Google Play, probably nowhere for that matter. But I've got (nearly) all their albums anyway, so no big. It does annoy me, though, when I find a reference to something I want to listen to but it's not on Play for whatever reason.

Hmpf.
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby selfinflikted » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:04 pm

Yea, I have all the Beatles I need in my CD collection. Occasionally you will run into artists you can't stream. :samsh:
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby MetroSonus » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:42 pm

I'm still doing what i've always done.. buying singles and instead of CDs it's amazon now :idk:

I listen to online streaming services with commercials though.
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Re: teh streaming business

Postby gregwar » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:57 pm

so I just organized my whole music collection in iTunes (after swearing at its indifferent screen)

it wasn't as hard as I thought since I don't have much in there. over the years I've gained and lost cd collections, mp3s, flac, etc. when I got my laptop in 2006 it had an 80gb hard drive and moving to ssds has kept my collection lean

the key is the check box that says 'part of a comp with various artists' so now I don't have like 10+ entries for 1 album. also the disc x of x really helped streamline things

this all sync'ed to my phone so now it's easy to find an album or whatevs
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