Nord Lead A1

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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby MetroSonus » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:35 pm

yea I think it's all kind of akin to how Roland, Yamaha, Korg all have different terms for S+S, vector, wavetable etc..

I think actually modelling circuits via industrial programs is something only in the realm of softies right now. Although self, I would wager VA is the more dominate marketing term for what a non analog synthesizer does, even though analog modeling is more technically accurate and I agree with Veracohr, that does seem to imply some sort of behavior emulation, specially in things like "modeled filter".
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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby selfinflikted » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:38 pm

MetroSonus wrote:yea I think it's all kind of akin to how Roland, Yamaha, Korg all have different terms for S+S, vector, wavetable etc..

I think actually modelling circuits via industrial programs is something only in the realm of softies right now. Although self, I would wager VA is the more dominate marketing term for what a non analog synthesizer does, even though analog modeling is more technically accurate and I agree with Veracohr, that does seem to imply some sort of behavior emulation, specially in things like "modeled filter".


Well, technically, digital hardware boards *are* softies, it's just that they're not housed in your computer, but rather their own proprietary casings. If all VA synths have digital filters, aren't all those digital filters modeling the behavior of analog filters? Isn't it all the same?!

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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby christianrock » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:48 pm

So it's very important to know if VAs are indeed superior to non-VA software synths.

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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby MetroSonus » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:59 pm

selfinflikted wrote:
MetroSonus wrote:yea I think it's all kind of akin to how Roland, Yamaha, Korg all have different terms for S+S, vector, wavetable etc..

I think actually modelling circuits via industrial programs is something only in the realm of softies right now. Although self, I would wager VA is the more dominate marketing term for what a non analog synthesizer does, even though analog modeling is more technically accurate and I agree with Veracohr, that does seem to imply some sort of behavior emulation, specially in things like "modeled filter".


Well, technically, digital hardware boards *are* softies, it's just that they're not housed in your computer, but rather their own proprietary casings. If all VA synths have digital filters, aren't all those digital filters modeling the behavior of analog filters? Isn't it all the same?!

I DON"T KNOW WHATS REAL ANYMORE.


lets not divide by zero here.. :lol:

But I meant while the filters made model behavior, the rest of the (hard ware) synth typically doesn't. the best (or closest) we usually get is single cycle sampled waveforms. in contrast VST synths like diva actually model the oscillators too.
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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby ElectricPuppy » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:16 pm

Does your synth work via numerical methods in software? Then it's a softie. My Virus is a softie. Ye Olde Orange Keys of Whale Village is a softie. The only non-softie I own is Ye Olde Polaris.

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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby selfinflikted » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:25 pm

MetroSonus wrote:But I meant while the filters made model behavior, the rest of the (hard ware) synth typically doesn't. the best (or closest) we usually get is single cycle sampled waveforms. in contrast VST synths like diva actually model the oscillators too.


That actually depends on the board. The Nord Leads, Waldorfs, Viruses (Virii?), etc in that bracket and price range generally don't use sampled waveforms. Some mid-range to lower end synths do. It's why I returned that Roland Gaia board I bought that time. I'm fairly certain my Korg board doesn't use samples. Probably that cheap little SH-201 does, though. That said, I like that Roland board a lot.
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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby MetroSonus » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:38 pm

The short answer is that I meant if you see something called ob1 saw there's a good chance its sampled other wise its most likely a proprietary generated wave.

Actually the virus is full of digital waves :lol:
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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby selfinflikted » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:43 pm

MetroSonus wrote:The short answer is that I meant if you see something called ob1 saw there's a good chance its sampled other wise its most likely a proprietary generated wave.


Sure, I don't disagree with that.

MetroSonus wrote:Actually the virus is full of digital waves :lol:


Yes. But the raw standard waveforms (saw, pulse/square, tri) are not samples - unless I'm gravelly mistaken. Same as my MS2000. The standard waves are generated with algorithms, but there are also sampled waves to choose from (the DWGS waves, for instance on the Korg board). It just depends. All that said, softies can use sampled waves just as easily (and I'm sure as often) as hardware boards.
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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby selfinflikted » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:05 pm

Also and of course, I could be wrong about everything.

It's happened before. :thu:
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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby soundwave106 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:19 pm

It's pretty easy to write code that simply spits out a periodic waveform at all times (like an analog oscillator). I think most "virtual analogs" / "analog modeling" does this these days. As long as you have the CPU cycles, no problem. Some might try to actually encode specific quirks of imperfect analog synths... that is harder. Only some of the lower end models used PCM samples.

I'm sure a wavetable oscillator in a VA would also be handled the same way -- you'd just implement a function that continuously scanned a table. Hard to be definitive without source code. I'm just saying, that's how *I* would code it. :)

Filtering, too, is basically a mathematical function. I'm sure it's possible to tailor the equation you use towards the quirks of a specific piece of gear. It's also possible to make it just sound good and then call it "true realistic analog modeling!" for marketing purposes.

I do think softies seem to have the more powerful modeling power right now, ironically enough. That's not to say a hardware VA could outclass synths like Diva with the right architecture, I just haven't heard one quite as "realistic" yet.
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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby selfinflikted » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:14 pm

I wish I was as knowledgeable about such things.
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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby christianrock » Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:40 pm

Diva was quite the benchmark wasn't it? No one's come close I think, and it's been a couple years. I know some people like Monark but most agree it's not in the same league.
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Re: Nord Lead A1

Postby MetroSonus » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:23 pm

selfinflikted wrote:
MetroSonus wrote:The short answer is that I meant if you see something called ob1 saw there's a good chance its sampled other wise its most likely a proprietary generated wave.


Sure, I don't disagree with that.

MetroSonus wrote:Actually the virus is full of digital waves :lol:


Yes. But the raw standard waveforms (saw, pulse/square, tri) are not samples


Right., I guess that's the difference I was talking about.. bu actually wouldn't that make them hybrid VA synths? :freak: :facepalm:
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