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My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:38 pm
by christianrock
At the risk of boring you guys even further...

I obviously haven't tried any one of these DAWs, but here's where I am with my opinions on them, trying to decide on which one to get.

. ABLETON LIVE - I like that there's both a "Session View' where it can act as a groovebox (something you guys know I'm after) and an "Arrangement View" where it works like a more traditional DAW (if not as full-featured). It doesn't seem to come with a lot of stuff for what you pay for, though.

. APPLE LOGIC - Ah, I fell in love with the idea of Logic. Everything it has seems great - it seems like it was made for me. But I don't wanna spend the extra money to get a Mac that can run it. So much for utopia.

. AVID PRO TOOLS - It seems like it's pretty solid and works well with audio tracks. But it's not that big of a bang on the buck.

. CAKEWALK SONAR - Huge bang for the buck, and the new Pro Channel is supposed to sound really nice and give you stuff that you'd have to pay big bucks in a DAW like Nuendo if you wanted it included. But ultimately, I'm annoyed at their non-transferable licence, and some of what it offers might not be as useful as initially thought (like Dimension Pro, which people say is nice, but I guess nobody uses!)

. CUCKOO'S REAPER - This one gets more interesting when I think that for about the same price as a regular DAW, I could get Reaper + Komplete 8, and it would supply plenty of stuff that I could use.

. IMAGE LINE'S FL STUDIO - They added a bunch of nice stuff in v. 10 to make it flow more like other DAWs. It comes with tons of useful stuff and is priced lower than the others, and it has lifetime upgrades. I just wish I could pick Harmor instead of Sytrus as the free synth in the complete package. I don't see much use for Sytrus when Harmor sounds so much better. The integration between DAW and Image Line plugins seems to be a very strong point for FL Studio.

. MOTU'S DIGITAL PERFORMER - The name is uninspiring, so early one I wrote it off undeservedly. Now it has a complete guitar suite like most of the others (yuck). I'd rather they match Logic in things like top quality reverbs and EQs and other useful bits, instead of this guitar crap. But other than that, it seems like a solid, good DAW very similar to Cubase and Pro Tools. And like those two, it doesn't have a whole lot going for the asking price, so

. STEINBERG'S CUBASE - It's a bit more than the other DAWs, and to get the best of Steinberg's software you actually have to cash out for Nuendo, which is really expensive. So, not for me I suppose. But it does seem very capable...

Where does that leave me?

Currently the two DAWs I'm considering are Ableton Live and FL Studio as a VST within Reaper. :like: :wave:

But I still *might* change my mind and end up with a fruity computer and Logic.

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:16 pm
by MetroSonus
Live loses in terms of content but makes up for it in work flow.

The biggest difference between Fl studio and Live is obviously the session view.

With FL studio, you're limited to one set of patterns on your screen at a time. In live, you can have as many as you want in the session view.

That was the number one reason I switched from FL to Live.

Most people in FL studio make one whole patter, copy and paste to a new one, make a change and repeat. I like how in live you work on one at a time, yet you have equal access to them all too..

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:41 pm
by christianrock
Yeah but I'm also thinking I might use FL as a jumping point because that coupled with Reaper (for audio tracks and mixing) is cheap enough, that I can ditch them later if I want to.

I can't do that with Sonar X1 producer - it's a lot more expensive and once I buy it I can't sell it at all. No licence transfer. So guess who loses my business.

Of course, I might just jump directly into Live. I think I'll like that workflow a lot and I'll end up becoming more of a vocal EDM artist, rather than a rock musician, once I get it.

And then there's Logic.

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:42 pm
by christianrock
Hey Metro - is the Live Suite (599) worth it? Does it come with stuff I'm going to actually want? Or would I be better off with the basic Live (399)?

I'm wondering if Apple is releasing the Logic Pro X soon, as rumoured, and what will it come with.

See, I haven't even started working in a computer yet, and I'm already worried about the upgrades :freak: :facepalm:

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:21 am
by ClavAnother
lol, digital performer has a boring name, don't use it :handface:



on another note, I thought it would be interesting to share that I use the native apple reverb for almost everything I do, along with the delay and a few others. They have THE ULTIMATELY MOSTEST BORINGEST GUI ever so people constantly write them off. Funny, I think it takes a certain type of weirdo to handle this kind of thing. They are some of the greatest plug ins I have heard, and straight to the point, no efforts wasted with looks, etc.

Here's a pic for posterity:

Image




Anyway, CR - I truly hope you find what you are looking for, it is quite a relief when you do.

-HAPPY TRACKING (or whatever you are gonna do)!


P.S. I think it is a misconception that DP7 is all about guitar, that's like saying DP5 was all about drums just because they gave you a new drum editor.

That said, I find this nifty new plug to be rather pleasing since I exclusively use the CE-2 on my Fender Rhodes (keyboard instrument):

Image


it actually sounds like the real thing.

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:04 pm
by MetroSonus
christianrock wrote:Hey Metro - is the Live Suite (599) worth it? Does it come with stuff I'm going to actually want? Or would I be better off with the basic Live (399)?


Get the cheap one. I have 8 and I have no interest in upgrading. it's stable and most of the reason I upgraded from 6 was for the drum and effect racks. I bought analog and couldn't get along with it. I'd assume as much for the other instruments. I think they're just trying to sell people the hipness of VSTs that look like Live. I really can't see any of their sampler content being worth it either.

Get the image line stuff or whatever you want to use instead.

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:48 pm
by christianrock
ClavAnother wrote:lol, digital performer has a boring name, don't use it :handface:


lulz. I was kind of trolling you.

But the point is, it's stupid that DP only works on a Mac. If I go Mac, I'll go Logic - same price, tons more stuff, better workflow (or so it is said). Much more stuff for the money.
If I go PC and DP was an option, I'd consider it, but it isn't, so I'm not considering it :idk:

Anyway, CR - I truly hope you find what you are looking for, it is quite a relief when you do.

-HAPPY TRACKING (or whatever you are gonna do)!


I'm posting about this even though I know it will bore some. But every forum has their "OMG what's teh bestest DAW evah???" threads, and I thought I could safely discuss my computer noobness with you guys. In other forums I'd be afraid of "OMG ur dumb, let me talk like I would talk to a 2 year old so you'll understand what a computer is" kind of responses.

Hopefully I'm not being too much of a boring noob :wave:

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:52 pm
by christianrock
MetroSonus wrote:
christianrock wrote:Hey Metro - is the Live Suite (599) worth it? Does it come with stuff I'm going to actually want? Or would I be better off with the basic Live (399)?


Get the cheap one. I have 8 and I have no interest in upgrading. it's stable and most of the reason I upgraded from 6 was for the drum and effect racks. I bought analog and couldn't get along with it. I'd assume as much for the other instruments. I think they're just trying to sell people the hipness of VSTs that look like Live. I really can't see any of their sampler content being worth it either.

Get the image line stuff or whatever you want to use instead.


Ah that makes sense. Live is their good stuff, everything else is like trying to sell the t-shirt and the coffee mug with the brand name on it.

I'll try to put my stuff up on Craigslist after turkey weekend, but I'm thinking I'll probably get more money for stuff in Feb-March when people are getting tax return checks? :idk:

So right now I'm thinking, since I got a couple of tapes, I might as well record a more chill type album now with drums from the Fusion and everything else on the multitrack (which shouldn't take too long) and get the computer 4-5 months from now.

Was that too anti-climatic? :cry:

There's one thing I'm going to need anyway, that I'm going to buy soon. And that's the padKontrol. I can use it with the Fusion as well.

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:47 pm
by topcat
christianrock wrote:

I'm posting about this even though I know it will bore some. But every forum has their "OMG what's teh bestest DAW evah???" threads, and I thought I could safely discuss my computer noobness with you guys. In other forums I'd be afraid of "OMG ur dumb, let me talk like I would talk to a 2 year old so you'll understand what a computer is" kind of responses.

Hopefully I'm not being too much of a boring noob :wave:

Naw..don't worry about it. Everyone here has gone through similar decision making scenarios and are more than glad to help.
I do think at some time you're gonna have to narrow it down to one thing and make the plunge. It's one of those things you'll never know is right for you until you actually work with it and find out how you get on with it.
Logical thinking and comparison charts can after awhile become a hindrance, as it adds to the confusion.

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:06 pm
by christianrock
So now I found out that I can get the workflow I want AND Logic - I can just add FXpansion Geist to Logic... I'm loving that idea.

So, if I go with Logic - This is what I'm going to need to buy in Feb/March:

. Apple Computer - whatever I can get for about 1000 dollars... there's always macs on Craigslist
. Logic Pro - 500.00 (hopefully by next year Logic 10 or X will be out)
. FXPansion Geist - 200
. ART Pro VLA II - 200.00 (I will need an optical compressor - won't have tape compression anymore...)
. EMU 1616M PCIe - 400.00 (yes I need an interface, that one seems cheap with good converters... and plenty of inputs... and Yoozer has one)
. Yamaha HS80M monitors (2) - 600.00 (my Events aren't cutting it anymore)
. Korg padKontrol - 100.00 (I can use my A90 as a MIDI controller but I need pads!)

That's about 2,800.00 I'll need for my DAW adventure... the price of the Kronos I was going to get. But I get so much more stuff now...

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:27 pm
by ElectricPuppy
Make sure the Mac you get can accept a PCIe card. A Mac Mini won't do, for example.

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:33 pm
by christianrock
Good point. I guess the iMac won't either? That's what I think I'd be looking for.

Maybe I should get the Apogee Duet firewire and compromise on inputs, while probably also gaining on quality...

By the way, if Yes could release the album Talk in 1994 which was made on two Macs synched together, then I should be able to do it with an iMac that's from around 2008 or so :lol:

Well, of course the difference would be that Trevor Rabin is a genius...

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:47 pm
by ElectricPuppy
I think you have a good plan of action, and that you should execute this plan as written.

*stamp* APPROVED *stamp*

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:02 pm
by topcat
ElectricPuppy wrote:I think you have a good plan of action, and that you should execute this plan as written.

*stamp* APPROVED *stamp*


:thu: All who approve of the above Approval, say "AYE".

AYE
:wave:





Agreed Talk is most likely their finest Yes album with that assemblage of personnel. :)

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:05 pm
by christianrock
Wow, there's a MacBook Pro with 6Gb RAM for 750 right now (which means they'll probably take 700). Adding a bigger monitor (this is a 13" macbook) and I'd probably be WINNING! :)

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:10 pm
by ElectricPuppy
Is there an older Mac that could take a classic PCI card and still have enough horsepower to run what you want? 'Cause if there is, I can GIVE you my old Emu 1820 interface.

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:13 pm
by christianrock
Y U NO SELL IT???

That's a good interface, too :thu: But does it work with a Mac?

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:18 pm
by ElectricPuppy
I no sell it because it has a very small problem: The output board for outputs 3-8 is flaky. Sometimes it causes weird clicking sounds in the inputs. But it doesn't always do this. And if you don't need the extra outputs, you can just yank the board and it works fine. I ran it like that until I replaced it with the (dreaded) Presonus Firestudio.

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:51 pm
by christianrock
No, i wouldn't need the extra outputs at all.
I actually always wondered why they're even there :poke:

You wanna get multiple tracks INTO your computer, not out of it... usually...

I'd have to look at compatibility, but I thank you very very much for your very generous offer :)

Apparently E-MU doesn't support their regular PCI cards on Windows 7 (just read about that on GS a couple days ago), so I'm not sure about Lion. Leopard might be fine... but then I'd have to see if the new version of Logic works well on Leopard...

Ahhhh the joys of a computer-based setup I don't even have yet :madcow:

Re: My DAW considerations thread.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:59 pm
by ElectricPuppy
christianrock wrote:Ahhhh the joys of a computer-based setup I don't even have yet :madcow:

Truth. :cry: I can see why guys would pay extra to get pre-configured systems that are guaranteed to work. I spend a stupid amount of time trying to get my Firestudio to work, and it turned out to be a chipset compatibility problem. Feh. I just wanna have inputs, why do I have to have problems??

The only reason I can see for all the extra outputs is to run tracks through outboard gear. But then you gotta return those signals anyway, which needs yet more inputs... I don't get it. :lol: Someone ought to make an interface that JUST inputs.