My DAW considerations thread.

Keyboards, Synths, Samplers and Groove Boxes.

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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby gregwar » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:03 pm

@cr well my background is in music but i was also a visual artist too. i'd love to get into video with sweet apps like vdmx, final cut x, premiere pro, livid cellDNA, etc etc. i've already been shooting in 1080p with my cannon ti2 but i've had my eye on a blackmagic design camera. i'm convinced they're gonna make an affordable 4k raw vid camera and i'm already putting money away for it.

not only do they hold ssd drives, they're compatible with the cannon lenses i already have and its possible to do 3d with raw 2.4k footage. plus i could finally shoot some high quality pron lol/jk but i would like to do interview/documentary style shows too on various things and maybe some artsy fartsy stuffs

the mac mini is actually a temporary stepping stone i plan on donating it to my friend in the summer or i might wait until the new mac pros are available. its a budget rig as i'm not interested in the imacs or retina macbook pros right now and am waiting to see whats in the pipeline for 2013/4.

since i was at the store anyways i got an 8g ram kit for my macbook pro. i would like to try the node feature in logic and other semi-advanced 'computer cluster' type stuffs. i can't remember where i heard this but some pro composer types get a mac pro and use mac minis as 'expansions' i can imagine one for woodwinds, one for brass, etc.

@metro btw i was thinking about how this thread is kind of a definitive computer music guide (for mac at least). if the information was cleaned up, organized and indexed like tweak's guide at studio-central it might be pretty handy for the average n00b starting out.

it could also be expanded with articles for pc, ssd vs hdd, ram and 64 bit for sample libraries, networking computers for music, pc on mac like virtual machines and boot camp, daw vs ordinary benchmarks, etc. a lot of work would be involved but i can help add and/or review the information and ensure its correct, at least to the best of my knowledge.

i was also thinking of doing a 'studio profile' thing or whatevs if your interested maybe in the spring or summer. there's just a few things i want to attempt first like boot camp, networking computers, getting proper monitors, etc.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:34 pm

Indeed, this thread rocks.

And you are very kind to your friends!
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby MetroSonus » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:15 am

you mean the studio of the month thing? Sure whenever you're ready. Or did you mean something else? That wouldn't be a bad idea either. I've just been doing the reblog thing for a while now, but I would like to get back to writing and making content. I graduate in summer and I'm done with the heavy lifting around my job on Thurs. and there's alot I want to do around here.

So yes please, any suggestions, ideas, help anything, feel free to chip in :thu:
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby gregwar » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:15 am

ya i was thinking we could make an actual computer music guide as funny as it sounds.

sort of like a wiki where there's like a 'contents' area that hyper-links you to articles that build on eachother, cover all sorts of related topics from n00b to advanced, some listed in the posts above.

i envision something a little different than a blog with articles but more like a text book approach with web pages.

i was thinking a couple years ago about actually writing a book on the topic and i still might but it would be a lot more accessible as a webpage.

here's kind of what i mean: http://tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

as for the studio of the month ya i'd be interested in that too in a few months.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby Plink Floyd » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:15 am

christianrock wrote:Are you going to use this for games? Why do you need an improved video card?
HD video editing is horribly power hungry. In 2000 or so, I got the Pinnacle DV500 Plus (bundled with Premiere Pro) for $500 or so:

Image

The hardware acceleration it lent to editing was pretty good, since PCs didn't have enough ballz at the time. In a few years, PC processing power caught up with standard def DV & you didn't need hardware acceleration, so I pulled the Pinnacle. It was buggy anyway.

Now, though, HD pwns even i7 PCs, so you need extra help from the GPU again. And not just any old cheapie card, either. Oh no, they start @ $350...

:mad:

gregwar wrote:ya i was thinking we could make an actual computer music guide.
I think I've heard that name somewhere before; someone may already be using it...
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby gregwar » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:30 am

ya it gets even trickier with mac as certain vid cards are supported and others not. afaik the mac pro hasn't seen a vid card update, among other things, in a couple years. it wouldn't be a big deal but they still charge full price for them !
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby MetroSonus » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:18 pm

gregwar wrote:ya i was thinking we could make an actual computer music guide as funny as it sounds.

sort of like a wiki where there's like a 'contents' area that hyper-links you to articles that build on eachother, cover all sorts of related topics from n00b to advanced, some listed in the posts above.

i envision something a little different than a blog with articles but more like a text book approach with web pages.

i was thinking a couple years ago about actually writing a book on the topic and i still might but it would be a lot more accessible as a webpage.

here's kind of what i mean: http://tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

as for the studio of the month ya i'd be interested in that too in a few months.


that was my goal when I started. I guess this is pretty much the rough start of it. Then I ended my two year hiatus from grad school and here we are lol. The page could easily be arranged into a table of contents or something more logical and expanded and so on. I actually got started on the tweak site in 2000. I had a few differences with over there and mainly, I envisioned doing something similar, but being a bit more general and open ended. Technology changes so much I wanted to stick to techniques that would more or less stay the same. For instance, I didn't really care for his "techno studio" approach where he'd say buy this, get that. But anyway, I'm not trying to slam the guy, but you know what I mean. And it's something I want to put more time into. so if you'e rup for it, let's put some thought into it.

http://computermusicguide.com/technical/

and and re: the name, the URL i wanted was taken and the current one was suggested as a replacement. I figured it worked with what I was trying to do and "computer" kinda meant electronic music. Back in the day, us sci fi nerds used to listen jarre and such and we just called it all computer music. We didn't know it was called electronic.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby gregwar » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:12 pm

lol thats exactly what i was talking about and ya i'm totally up for it

my original plan was to copy and paste all of the text and links from my posts on studio-central and cmg and try to roughly organize them into categories related to daw, synthesis, computers, cat pictures, etc and reword them and boil it all down to the essential points and fill in the blanks where necessary.

i love tweak's site but stylistically i'd want to do something different. the example rigs are all pretty out of date now lol. i remember looking at all of them and ultimately i went for something completely different. i like the idea of explaining daws and everything then letting people make their own choices.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby MetroSonus » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:02 pm

when did you post over there? what was your name?
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby gregwar » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:58 pm

gregwar

from 2007 or 8 onwards
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby MetroSonus » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:05 pm

I was proteus9, but I was out of there around 2005. Then I went to HC with the same nick, posted a bunch and it crashed. Had to make a new and so .. here we are.
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LCD TVs and mac minis

Postby gregwar » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:04 am

with this post i just want to summarize my thoughts on using a tv with a mac mini. i've been noticing a bit of a trend with richard divine, some mixing and mastering engineers and some of my friends using tvs as computer screens in primarily audio-related studios. for serious photography, colour correction and cg there's no substitute for professional hi-res displays but they won't affect the sound.

Image
console by greg_war, on Flickr

background
my history with tvs and computers dates back around '98-'99 when i got my first video card with s-video to play tony hawk in the living room. it was a pain dragging my desktop pc around and setting everything up but my computer tech had a smaller portable tower for audio engineering and i could already start to see the potential.

back in early '06 my friend got the first intel mac mini and connected it to a projector for home theatre use and video performances. he was mainly using clips of ben affleck, his man-crush at the time. he worked at an animation studio and was always at the bleeding edge of technology. i liked the form factor and the idea of creating content on your tv instead of passively consuming it.

fast forwards to 2013 and the mac mini comes with an hdmi connection and automatically recognizes my 40" lcd tv by brand (toshiba). i'd been closely watching the mini for a couple years and was planning to use it with a tv but zero research actually went into the tv itself. it just so happened they would price match plus take off 25% of the difference so i went for it.

considerations
lcd tvs are becoming ubiquitous in the living room, at least in north america. despite manufacturers efforts to promote smart tvs, 3d and now 4k 'ultra hd' the majority of consumers aren't interested in replacing their existing tvs, components and everything at a huge cost for a marginal gain in quality. the adoption of these new technologies will likely be slow and has driven down the cost of 1080p hd substantially.

i had a dell 24" lcd monitor for use with my laptop as a second screen. this set up worked for a couple years but i was never really happy with it. the resolution of my old dell monitor is the same as a 1080p tv and for the price of two 24" lcds you can buy a 40" tv. now i just have an hdmi to mini display adapter for when i want to connect the tv to my laptop.

i'm not an expert on tvs and the quality of budget offerings can be hit or miss. sites like cnet post excellent reviews and gave me the the idea to get an lcd with backlighting. in toshiba terms its called dynalight and one of the advantages is deeper blacks. for refresh rates i have 60hz which isn't top of the line but so far i haven't noticed much ghosting.

set up
setting up a tv for computer use is a little different than movies and such. its a matter of personal preference and depends on the tv but here are a few guidelines. up close the text and icons can look a little pixelated so i keep the sharpness down to around 3-4 out of 20. then i keep the contrast high around 90% so that text and icons are a little less pixelated but still clear.

i try to keep the colours as neutral as possible. in the toshiba's preferences i set the contrast and sharpness first but keep the colour settings stock. then i launch apple's calibration software on the mini for small colour correction. when that's done i go back into toshiba's preferences and slightly lower the main colour slider from 50% to 45%.

i recommend using a quality reference screen that you like if at all possible. i try to match new lcds to my macbook pro's display. if the tv has an ambient light sensor i recommend turning it off so the tv is more consistent. on the toshiba this boosts the brightness dramatically so i just turned the brightness down to about 25%.

future
right now everything is set up like a typical bedroom tv at the foot of my bed with a wireless apple keyboard and trackpad. in the coming months i plan to add a touch screen kit from music computing that i'll write more about at that time. suffice to say it will potentially be the ultimate plug-in controller with zero mapping involved.

i plan to remove the tv's base and mount it in a drafting style table or stand that can swivel from flat to vertical. i'd like to add a drawer set up so i can roll a 88 key controller forwards or backwards and 2 speaker stands for yamaha hs-80m monitors. hopefully i can get this all set up in a new apartment by the summer. i'll keep you guys posted on the developments

greg
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Re: LCD TVs and mac minis

Postby Plink Floyd » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:53 am

gregwar wrote:puter to tv
I've had several group funs while net-surfing on the famroom big screen:

- Watching Ye Olde TV Crappe on Hulu with kids.

- U-Toob sessions (lolcats, stupid human tricks and wtf k-pop are reliably lulzful).

- Googlemap trips to Where I Went on Vacation and There's My Old House.

- Finding merch and info for People Who Don't Surf.

- Carefully showing folks a few guarded glimpses Inside of the Treehaus.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby MetroSonus » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:25 pm

so the main advantage is just a bigger or screen, to pull double duty in small spaces? ect?

I thought about doing that at one point too, but for me, 23 or so widescreen is fine. Although I have seen some people get really into it and use projectors as well. That seems like a lot of money in bulbs just to use a DAW though..

all in all, comes down to personal pref. I suppose. :cool:
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:07 pm

I got a SmartTV last year so now we can surf and youtube and facebook while we watch TV.

Except we never do it. It was kind of a waste of money. I should have gotten a larger TV with that money and made it Plasma (I like the quality better, it's supposed to last 30 years, etc).

This thread is now about TV surfing. Carry on.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby MetroSonus » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:14 pm

HTPC is the way to go. Everything runs on a full dekstop mac or pc. no compatibility issues. media server, storage, online tv ect. it's the only way to fly.

and it's stupid easy to make one. You know how to use windows? you can use an HTPC.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby gregwar » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:06 pm

ya tv-as-daw is kind of open ended. I'm in charted territory atm but the 40" touch screen will be breaking new ground for me.

if u can create chances are u can play back but it doesn't always work the other way around. the Mac mini server would be brilliant for media but I heard that people with mountain lion server edition were having problems with logic.

besides if i was to build a server server I think Linux would be the best bet.

projectors are awesome because the double as live performance tools. there is a frosted glass projector touch screen from music computing but I imagine set up & calibration could be a nightmare, especially live. not to mention transporting a large sheet of glass from gig to gig

I don't have plans to bring the tv to live venues but I've been considering a mimo 10" touch screen. paired with an ipad, the Mac mini and a midi controller it would be a powerful live tool.

more importantly it would get around the problem of having a laptop on stage especially in a rock band. if everything could be mounted directly on the midi controller it would just look like a keyboard on crack.

when the time comes I'll elaborate more on my live setup plans. for now I just want to say the concept for studio setup # 36422794 is modularity, each piece working double duty and totally swappable depending on the circumstances.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:56 pm

I'm very curious to hear what the touchscreen experience will be like...

I have to say I've seen the iPad apps to control Live 8 and I got a little jealous.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby MetroSonus » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:35 pm

Which ones? The novation one doesn't work w/ really. Its just a loop player thingy that has its own content. A toy really.
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Re: My DAW considerations thread.

Postby christianrock » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:46 pm

These ones. I don't have an iPad or Live so I don't know what they are :)

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/8667900-post77.html
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