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Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:07 pm
by MetroSonus
I've always thought discrete versions of chips was a cool concept. The idea that you could go into the schematic for the chip and just build it discretely, was just, I dunno, cool..

I've always found that no matter how complex things can get, they all started out at, or can be reduced to, something one can do in the garage.

So here's the big question... through hole vs SMT, can you REALLY hear the difference?!?!

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:51 pm
by soundwave106
MetroSonus wrote:So here's the big question... through hole vs SMT, can you REALLY hear the difference?!?!


From a "big picture perspective", electrons are electrons and math is math etc.

However there's definitely a possibility that many of the discrete SMT parts, especially "back in the day", had some undesirable characteristics for audio applications. That's kind of the vibe I get from going through old (<2010) Gearslutz threads on this topic.

Of course, Gearslutz is full of audio juju wizard types, not the greatest reliable source. So who knows. :idk: Still, it's possibly this is why we didn't seen the discrete SMT analogs appear really until the 2010s.

I remember the old Waldorf Pulse 1 circuit board (which was also discrete) had plenty of nice sized through hole components. The new Waldorf Pulse 2 circuit board pictures are all SMT. That's what 20 years gets you in manufacturing advances, I guess.

DSI (among others) has proven that you can design SMT well. So I imagine SMT components are up to par these days, or at least you can work around the limitations.

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:34 am
by Plink Floyd
MetroSonus wrote:So here's the big question... through hole vs SMT, can you REALLY hear the difference?!?!
Not sure if srs, but

The advantages of integrated over discrete circuitry is far more likely to be discernible to the ear, especially in filters. With chips, stability was engineered in from the beginning. There's no matching transistors or mucking about with swamping networks & offset probs ect.

SMT is here to stay, though, because economics. So, even if you can't hear it, you can feel it in your wallet.

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:30 am
by Purity_Control
Wow! I had no idea about all that stuff about surface mounted components.

I do remember some people on Harmony Central complaining when the Moog Voyager came out, that when you opened it up, you couldn't see th etransistor ladder filter. :grin:

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:04 pm
by christianrock
Plink Floyd wrote:
MetroSonus wrote:With chips, stability was engineered in from the beginning.


And with analog synths, stability is exactly what you don't want. Too much stability, I mean. You want the little oscillations that give character to the sound.

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:47 pm
by gregwar
here are some reaktor blocks for external gear



somewhere around 8 minutes they accurately tune the oscillators on this modular and start joking that it starts to sound like a soft synth lol

but if you detune the two osc . . .

:pfft:

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:09 am
by Plink Floyd
christianrock wrote:
Plink Floyd wrote:
MetroSonus wrote:With chips, stability was engineered in from the beginning.
And with analog synths, stability is exactly what you don't want. Too much stability, I mean. You want the little oscillations that give character to the sound.

Agreed, but I meant like the temp stability you need in gain sensitive applications (eg some filters), which you get when differential stages are implemented with monolithic (same die) transistors.

The antithesis: I used to have to tune my ARP Odyssey before every set.

But I wish I still had it.

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:40 pm
by MetroSonus
I was actually curious and kinda sarcastic. IC vs. discrete is one thing and thru hole and SM is another.. :lol: I do'nt have experience with anything other than hybrids.

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:00 am
by Plink Floyd
Well then, now I know if srs or not.

:lol:

Now, soundwave was saying he remembers GS threads griping about some smt being bad for audio: I can't imagine why, except if the components were just poor quality compared to their discrete counterparts.

But, I get learned sumpin new every day.

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:25 pm
by soundwave106
Yeah, I was going through threads like this to get the impression.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslu ... -hole.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslu ... -info.html

There's a mix of opinions. The overall "vibe" I get is there is no real difference between SMT and Through Hole. But at the time of the thread, some components were possibly not available or were of poor quality. (Caps were singled out, which makes sense, because I have heard that capacitor characteristics and flaws are really important for certain circuits such as filters.)

I only "know" the opinions presented, of course. As I said, 'tis Gearslutz. Many of the modern SMT only analogs sound fine to me.

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:46 am
by Plink Floyd
Thanks for those threads. I read em, & I have to admit that a few of those slutz are the goods & can prove it.

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 3:17 pm
by Purity_Control
Here you go, part 2, finally!



There's one bit I think Self Inflicted will like... also a couple of fails right at the end.

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:05 pm
by MetroSonus
I love that sort of vibrato sound. Is that an effect in the patches? I notice some had it some did not.. It seems more common to me in the chip synths. Is that due to an inherent quality? :idk: Or is it an onboard effect?

That really sounds good to me though..

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:30 am
by Purity_Control
I'd have to listen to it again with that in mind to work out what you mean, on my laptop in Costa coffee atm, also I recorded most of the bits weeks apart so may have changed offboard setting of things in between.

It's quite likely it's the Boss chorus that's on most patches just because it makes it sound so damn good, usually I tend to use the phase phase/spacialiser chorus, so that may be putting some shimmer on it.

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:16 pm
by gregwar
:like:

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:23 pm
by christianrock
Purity_Control wrote:Here you go, part 2, finally!



There's one bit I think Self Inflicted will like... also a couple of fails right at the end.


Kitteh for the win.

I have to say, they really got the sound right with this one. It seems it will excel in any type of sound. Love that distortion in the beginning. :smoke:

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:37 pm
by ElectricPuppy
Sounding good, PC. Every time I hear the P6 or the new Obie, I get a little GAS. :thu:

also: Eugene says, "THANK YOU THAT IS ENOUGH"

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:19 pm
by Purity_Control
Thanks guys.

Metro - I'm pretty sure the vibrato type thing is intrinsic to the P6, it did seem weird to me when I first tweaked stuff that the minimum mod depth for the lfo isn't that subtle, figured as they based it heavily on the P5 (which I've never played) maybe that was authentic.

Can't say I've noticed since then, maybe just because it sounds so nice it never seems out of place.

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:21 pm
by Purity_Control
Phoo seemed to ave it in for that particular piece as well lol, like I say, I got catted a few times trying to do it.

Re: The gear demo thread.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:55 pm
by Purity_Control
A bit of a derpy experiment, if effective and would work with a mechanical metronome.

I've just miked up the metronome and run it into the envelope follower.



The full thing was dull as dishwater so I cut it down to a couple of minutes.

Dunno why I didn't think to use the headphone out on the metronome, guess I just wanted to see if the envelope follower thing would work.

I think I remember someone on HC doing something similar with a popcorn maker. :lol: